I'm kind of concerned for this guy. He seems very earnest but scared. Like his life is over. Is he safe? Does he have support? He is under a lot of pressure some of it self generated of course. A very good lesson for us all. Chatting to our mates is one thing- putting it on the public forum is another. But when there are so many people maliciously spreading false information based on a hidden agenda I doubt this guy will end up getting too much Police attention. PS Life on a farm is not so bad. 🙂
It's strange isn't it? It's hard to know what is truth and what is fabricated. This guy may be utterly contrite or he may be doing a really good job of back-pedalling because he has been sprung. I really hope it is the former, but the nature of the rabbit hole is that nothing is necessarily what it seems and it may be the latter.
Although it seems boring and reactionary, I honestly believe that how we educate children needs to change. There needs to be more teaching of the powers of reflection and contemplation. Kids need to grow up recognising the responsibility that comes with the power to communicate.
The germ of this may be from a very intelligent and educated chap with no malicious intent, but what he unleashed is pure uncontained evil. Not evil as in some mysterious occultish way, but the evil of ignorant and reckless bullshit being spewed as if from an uncapped sewer line.
I have been guilty of saying things that have caused hurt to others and I have terrible regrets about that and have spent years trying to clean it up. No success - a good friendship destroyed forever.
Here's how I deal with social media for my own integrity's sake. I will share things that I think are valuable and might add something to the discourse. I will state my own biases, be they political or social and declare them as such. I will even poke the stick at someone if I feel strongly enough about it. For instance, I posted the other day that it was time for Winston Peters to go. I felt that he had been afforded far too much time to achieve good things for the country and was an abject failure as a politician and it was time to stand aside and allow someone who might have something to add have a go.
This is my opinion. I don't project it as some kind of objective truth and I fully expect people to react with their own opinions, in agreement or in disagreement. It's called a discussion.
Pulling threads together to make a narrative as this guy has done should be called for what it is - bullshit. The real harm is that so many people are so malleable and gullible that this stuff gets a life of its own and crowds out the possibility of discussion, debate and informed opinion making.
I appreciate that this is way too long, but I am so passionate about the preservation of truth and the community and this type of stuff destroys that opportunity for cohesion as a society.
To the index super spreader - I say this. If you have honestly learnt a valuable lesson from what you have done, are authentically contrite, work tirelessly to clean up after yourself down all the channels you can find that redistributed your toxic bullshit and commit yourself to being a better person and helping others reform their behaviour online and in life, I forgive you. We all make mistakes.
But, if you are just rolling over and showing your tummy because you got sprung, I don't wish you harm. I just wish you would shut the fuck up.
This is incredibly important work (I just subscribed to support you more). I've been really troubled by the spike in conspiratorial behaviour in NZ lately. It's always been there as a slightly prominent undercurrent in the form of 'anti' brigades (anti-1080, anti-vax, anti-5G etc). It became incredibly frustrating, slightly frightening, in the measles epidemic last year (remember that?!) But it's gone total mainstream with COVID, especially recently in the form of NZPP, JLR, Brownlee/Collins, and now this. More than ever we need your kind of journalism. Can you pleeeeeease make a TV documentary series on conspiracy theories?!
It shows the danger of being a self-declared "smart guy" in a tense situation with an information vacuum. You think you're just putting your thoughts together and informing people and then suddenly you've created a "fact" that other people can weaponise
Thanks for publishing this and making it public to share- I was told about this rumor on the weekend and was immediately dubious as NZ media is not muzzled, Winston Peters quoted - chief parliament shit stirrer for over twenty five years, and someone 'broke' into quarantine!
It's pretty rare for a rumour like this to take off so fast and be seized on by the public so hard. He seems pretty shocked that this got so out of control and it's not hard to see why. Most of the time people posting their dumb theories on the internet will just be ignored but I guess the public is desperate to know what's going on in this environment right now. He does seem to genuinely understand the impact of what he's done and is obviously horrified about the whole thing.
I feel terrible for the family, who have done literally nothing wrong as far as I can tell. Honestly social media is a (worse than usual) cesspool right now.
Pardon my ignorance, but you explain the racism of the Facebook post to me? I'm American and I am wondering if maybe I am just missing some NZ context.
Also, is he seriously potentially at risk with the NZ government/police for the Reddit post? It's so strange to see that concern given that I live in a country where the president spreads fake shit all the time with no repercussions.
As much as I feel bad for the guy, and I do, I think something may have to happen (i.e. police charging him) in order for this matter to be seen as being taken seriously.
Thank you David for continuing to shine a light down these rabbit holes so that we can begin to see what the hell is going on. Special thanks also to Dylan for taking the time to track and speak to the originator, but also not editing the interview too heavily to allow us to feel the full weight of James' range of feelings, right up to panic. Like others I feel bad for him - it was the sort of smart-dumb thing I would have said at his age, but without a platform that would have spread it far and wide without the ensuing consequences. Maybe my BS radar is a bit off these days, but I'm feeling that he is genuinely remorseful and not just desparately trying to cover his tracks. I guess his actions from this point on will tell.
Where I would like to see things heading next is some more exploration of those who took this turd of a post and polished it to its high sheen, twisting it as they went and adding some racist glitter. The ironically-named Expose Hatred group (because they only seem to be able to expose their own hatred) need to have a few rocks turned over to see who scurries out. I imagine the pushback would be stronger (cornered rats and all that), but I'll float a conspiracy theory of my own and posit that the people behind this group will be known to the authorities in some capacity or another.
I have read this a couple of times now. And I keep coming back to the huge concern this guy has for his future, and what seems to be somewhat less concern for the young woman and her family.
“...maybe if I was to get in front of a court with name suppression...” and something along the lines of paying reparation so at least he would be able to keep his job.
Am I reading it wrong? Because the guy seems a bit narcissistic.
I’m American and my partner is a Kiwi and have been sort of stunned to see the vast array of what family, friends, news sources, etc. project to the public both in NZ and the US. My partner and I have made, what I have felt, are good strides in having productive conversations with our respective families and some friends or extended friends. However, I have been floored by some of the continuous conspiracy theories (the anti-vaccination movement seems to be a big one) by New Zealanders and overtly casual racism by news sources like the NZ Herald (we get it, you’d like to burn Meghan Markle at the stake).
I would be interested your thoughts on how you believe some Kiwis spread so many conspiracy theories and yet firmly believe that they are anti-Trump (anti-racist, sexist, etc.)? Is it because of what is projected in the news cycle and in popular culture? I don’t mean to pick on NZ, I just know very well what a disaster the US is and so does the rest of the world and would be interested to hear more from Kiwis about this. Would be willing to share more concrete examples as well, if that would be helpful.
For context: my partner has not really lived in NZ in almost a decade. He grew up in Hamilton but lived in Queenstown prior to going on his OE and never really coming back permanently to NZ. We live in Berkeley, California now and spent 2 years in LA prior to that. He lived in Europe for many years prior to LA. I grew up in Illinois and my parents live in Memphis now. I am not shrouded from the rest of the US outside of California. We have great conversations about the above topics but sometimes he feels like he just can’t opine because he doesn’t really have enough knowledge of certain topics to base his opinion on. I feel the same about a majority of the US.
(Quick note: Am I wrong in thinking the NZ Herald is (or was) a relatively respected source of journalism in NZ? I used to read Stuff quite a bit more until they took their posts off social media. I just discovered the NZ national public radio and am looking for any additional good sources of content you may be able to recommend specifically for NZ news.)
Great piece and good approach. Good to see some remorse in the instigator who will surely learn his lesson. I wonder where is his 'friend that went to uni with the girl' and told him all this in the first place?
The real culprit here are the vile people behind the Expose Hatred group (hatred to them meaning their perceived discrimination as white people which is just such a joke). I would love to see whoever is behind that group and posted the awful lies about the family prosecuted under the Harmful Digital Communications Act. There needs to be a message sent that this kind of thing ruins lives and is not okay.
Also, there are a lot of people (not just here) that don't understand why the whole attack and response (largely from Expose) is deeply racist. It's a big topic - but would be great to see a piece that explains this to people - context is key here - and sheds light on some of the hideous organised racism that is gathering numbers in NZ every day through groups like this. That they are public and so everyone can see the individuals that spout and share this hate won't last long tho I'd imagine.
I'm kind of concerned for this guy. He seems very earnest but scared. Like his life is over. Is he safe? Does he have support? He is under a lot of pressure some of it self generated of course. A very good lesson for us all. Chatting to our mates is one thing- putting it on the public forum is another. But when there are so many people maliciously spreading false information based on a hidden agenda I doubt this guy will end up getting too much Police attention. PS Life on a farm is not so bad. 🙂
It's strange isn't it? It's hard to know what is truth and what is fabricated. This guy may be utterly contrite or he may be doing a really good job of back-pedalling because he has been sprung. I really hope it is the former, but the nature of the rabbit hole is that nothing is necessarily what it seems and it may be the latter.
Although it seems boring and reactionary, I honestly believe that how we educate children needs to change. There needs to be more teaching of the powers of reflection and contemplation. Kids need to grow up recognising the responsibility that comes with the power to communicate.
The germ of this may be from a very intelligent and educated chap with no malicious intent, but what he unleashed is pure uncontained evil. Not evil as in some mysterious occultish way, but the evil of ignorant and reckless bullshit being spewed as if from an uncapped sewer line.
I have been guilty of saying things that have caused hurt to others and I have terrible regrets about that and have spent years trying to clean it up. No success - a good friendship destroyed forever.
Here's how I deal with social media for my own integrity's sake. I will share things that I think are valuable and might add something to the discourse. I will state my own biases, be they political or social and declare them as such. I will even poke the stick at someone if I feel strongly enough about it. For instance, I posted the other day that it was time for Winston Peters to go. I felt that he had been afforded far too much time to achieve good things for the country and was an abject failure as a politician and it was time to stand aside and allow someone who might have something to add have a go.
This is my opinion. I don't project it as some kind of objective truth and I fully expect people to react with their own opinions, in agreement or in disagreement. It's called a discussion.
Pulling threads together to make a narrative as this guy has done should be called for what it is - bullshit. The real harm is that so many people are so malleable and gullible that this stuff gets a life of its own and crowds out the possibility of discussion, debate and informed opinion making.
I appreciate that this is way too long, but I am so passionate about the preservation of truth and the community and this type of stuff destroys that opportunity for cohesion as a society.
To the index super spreader - I say this. If you have honestly learnt a valuable lesson from what you have done, are authentically contrite, work tirelessly to clean up after yourself down all the channels you can find that redistributed your toxic bullshit and commit yourself to being a better person and helping others reform their behaviour online and in life, I forgive you. We all make mistakes.
But, if you are just rolling over and showing your tummy because you got sprung, I don't wish you harm. I just wish you would shut the fuck up.
This is incredibly important work (I just subscribed to support you more). I've been really troubled by the spike in conspiratorial behaviour in NZ lately. It's always been there as a slightly prominent undercurrent in the form of 'anti' brigades (anti-1080, anti-vax, anti-5G etc). It became incredibly frustrating, slightly frightening, in the measles epidemic last year (remember that?!) But it's gone total mainstream with COVID, especially recently in the form of NZPP, JLR, Brownlee/Collins, and now this. More than ever we need your kind of journalism. Can you pleeeeeease make a TV documentary series on conspiracy theories?!
It shows the danger of being a self-declared "smart guy" in a tense situation with an information vacuum. You think you're just putting your thoughts together and informing people and then suddenly you've created a "fact" that other people can weaponise
Great job Dylan.. can you let him loose on the cretin who started the nanny rumour too?
Thanks for publishing this and making it public to share- I was told about this rumor on the weekend and was immediately dubious as NZ media is not muzzled, Winston Peters quoted - chief parliament shit stirrer for over twenty five years, and someone 'broke' into quarantine!
It's pretty rare for a rumour like this to take off so fast and be seized on by the public so hard. He seems pretty shocked that this got so out of control and it's not hard to see why. Most of the time people posting their dumb theories on the internet will just be ignored but I guess the public is desperate to know what's going on in this environment right now. He does seem to genuinely understand the impact of what he's done and is obviously horrified about the whole thing.
I feel terrible for the family, who have done literally nothing wrong as far as I can tell. Honestly social media is a (worse than usual) cesspool right now.
Pardon my ignorance, but you explain the racism of the Facebook post to me? I'm American and I am wondering if maybe I am just missing some NZ context.
Also, is he seriously potentially at risk with the NZ government/police for the Reddit post? It's so strange to see that concern given that I live in a country where the president spreads fake shit all the time with no repercussions.
Bit of a Popeye situation isn't it? What he did was awful, but I feel a bid bad for him
As much as I feel bad for the guy, and I do, I think something may have to happen (i.e. police charging him) in order for this matter to be seen as being taken seriously.
Thank you David for continuing to shine a light down these rabbit holes so that we can begin to see what the hell is going on. Special thanks also to Dylan for taking the time to track and speak to the originator, but also not editing the interview too heavily to allow us to feel the full weight of James' range of feelings, right up to panic. Like others I feel bad for him - it was the sort of smart-dumb thing I would have said at his age, but without a platform that would have spread it far and wide without the ensuing consequences. Maybe my BS radar is a bit off these days, but I'm feeling that he is genuinely remorseful and not just desparately trying to cover his tracks. I guess his actions from this point on will tell.
Where I would like to see things heading next is some more exploration of those who took this turd of a post and polished it to its high sheen, twisting it as they went and adding some racist glitter. The ironically-named Expose Hatred group (because they only seem to be able to expose their own hatred) need to have a few rocks turned over to see who scurries out. I imagine the pushback would be stronger (cornered rats and all that), but I'll float a conspiracy theory of my own and posit that the people behind this group will be known to the authorities in some capacity or another.
I have read this a couple of times now. And I keep coming back to the huge concern this guy has for his future, and what seems to be somewhat less concern for the young woman and her family.
“...maybe if I was to get in front of a court with name suppression...” and something along the lines of paying reparation so at least he would be able to keep his job.
Am I reading it wrong? Because the guy seems a bit narcissistic.
I’m American and my partner is a Kiwi and have been sort of stunned to see the vast array of what family, friends, news sources, etc. project to the public both in NZ and the US. My partner and I have made, what I have felt, are good strides in having productive conversations with our respective families and some friends or extended friends. However, I have been floored by some of the continuous conspiracy theories (the anti-vaccination movement seems to be a big one) by New Zealanders and overtly casual racism by news sources like the NZ Herald (we get it, you’d like to burn Meghan Markle at the stake).
I would be interested your thoughts on how you believe some Kiwis spread so many conspiracy theories and yet firmly believe that they are anti-Trump (anti-racist, sexist, etc.)? Is it because of what is projected in the news cycle and in popular culture? I don’t mean to pick on NZ, I just know very well what a disaster the US is and so does the rest of the world and would be interested to hear more from Kiwis about this. Would be willing to share more concrete examples as well, if that would be helpful.
For context: my partner has not really lived in NZ in almost a decade. He grew up in Hamilton but lived in Queenstown prior to going on his OE and never really coming back permanently to NZ. We live in Berkeley, California now and spent 2 years in LA prior to that. He lived in Europe for many years prior to LA. I grew up in Illinois and my parents live in Memphis now. I am not shrouded from the rest of the US outside of California. We have great conversations about the above topics but sometimes he feels like he just can’t opine because he doesn’t really have enough knowledge of certain topics to base his opinion on. I feel the same about a majority of the US.
(Quick note: Am I wrong in thinking the NZ Herald is (or was) a relatively respected source of journalism in NZ? I used to read Stuff quite a bit more until they took their posts off social media. I just discovered the NZ national public radio and am looking for any additional good sources of content you may be able to recommend specifically for NZ news.)
Great piece and good approach. Good to see some remorse in the instigator who will surely learn his lesson. I wonder where is his 'friend that went to uni with the girl' and told him all this in the first place?
The real culprit here are the vile people behind the Expose Hatred group (hatred to them meaning their perceived discrimination as white people which is just such a joke). I would love to see whoever is behind that group and posted the awful lies about the family prosecuted under the Harmful Digital Communications Act. There needs to be a message sent that this kind of thing ruins lives and is not okay.
Also, there are a lot of people (not just here) that don't understand why the whole attack and response (largely from Expose) is deeply racist. It's a big topic - but would be great to see a piece that explains this to people - context is key here - and sheds light on some of the hideous organised racism that is gathering numbers in NZ every day through groups like this. That they are public and so everyone can see the individuals that spout and share this hate won't last long tho I'd imagine.