I talk to full-time debunker Mick West - author of "Escaping the Rabbit Hole" - about how to best engage with those caught in the grip of dangerous conspiracy thinking.
I have been needing this. I too get quickly oppositional with those I can see are not able to see the logic behind information that has debunked bad theories. This, despite the fact I've entertained a few myself. I can be intellectually honest about whether I've used good sources to find out about a popular conspiracy theory, and find it confronting when others are not. Or when they trust superdumbwebsite.com etc.
Your post this week helps keep the end goal in perspective, so thank you for your efforts, they are appreciated and necessary.
Like trying to talk a jumper off a bridge, telling them they're an idiot for being up on the rails isn't going to get a good result. So that's how I'm going to think of these people. A brain on the edge, approach with caution and kindness. Talk them down.
This is chock full of wonderful information that I know I will never put into practice because I respectfully disagree with Mr. West on the notion that conspiracy theorists are basically good people. I've said before that QAnon theorists as a whole are usually homophobic, transphobic, racist, misogynists with a heap of Anti-Semitism thrown in for spice. I'd like to think that the basic definition of a good person would not include any of the above characteristics and therefore I tend to think of them as a lost cause until they prove me wrong. Mr. West must have the patience of a Saint to engage with these people and I'm happy that someone with a level head is out there fighting the good fight.
I fear I too am far too quick to fall into the "how the heck can you believe this crud?" category, and I intend to use this information practically. I also read the whole thing with "Jerry was a race car driver" by Primus running around my head.
Thanks for this, David - insightful and interesting as ever.
This is great! I definitely struggle with having a crappy attitude towards conspiracy theorists/ dumb ideas and my first instinct is to call people out on their crap. Thank you, Mick and David, for reminding me that most people are good. It's easy to lose sight of that during these crazy times. Going to add Mick's book to my reading list.
Brilliant!I think everyone should read it. I will think twice before shouting "THIS IS SO STUPID WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THIS YOU DUMB MORON? "even if it's so satisfying!
Having a deeply low moment right now. Don't know why i feel more lonely now than i have ever been and I found myself turning to this last post for comfort and distraction . .. Its funny how i feel like a part of me is sinking low now ... When i am living with my family ... I mean earlier i lived completely alone and never felt lonely .... dont know why i am writing away my feelings when all i wanted to say was re reading your words is bringing me some comfort ...
Oh man thanks so much for writing this, it's something I worry about a lot because sometimes it just seems like there's no way to communicate or find any common ground with people who believe this sort of stuff. I used to love telling people that they're stupid for believing in these things but over the past few years I've just come to think that it just reinforces the exact same beliefs and pushes them further into the conspiracy. And I'm glad to hear that you could use some of this with Art Green because I thought your engagement from the first article seemed really positive!
But also fuck Pete Evans forever because holy shit he's terrible
This is really good advice - I would've appreciated more tips on secrets in THPS as well but I wasn't the one doing the interview. On a serious note, I'm interested to whether there's anything constructive a person can do when they don't have a personal relationship with the conspiracy theorist.
I’m in the throes of dealing with a professional colleague who has gone full-blown COVID conspiracy theory. My buddy, Eric Kutner suggested I read your “How to talk … hellscape” article, and as the fates would have it, my colleague is the one and only …
Here’s what’s important: I stand by those projects wholeheartedly! But I do not subscribe to Pete’s COVID conspiracies. The two are not equivalent.
And now there are newspaper articles claiming that Netflix dropped The Magic Pill because of Pete’s COVID nonsense. While that isn’t true (our contract with Netflix was up. Period), I can certainly see why that COULD easily be a reason to pull it off the roster.
Thanks for this, David. Being in the US, especially, sometimes it feels absolutely hopeless. How can you fight something so absolutely huge and pervasive? Something so deeply ingrained in the way that your country operates from the top down? It's so hard to not just be angry and incredulous 24/7. But I have to remember that there are good people -- like you, like Mick -- who truly care about debunking things, and using your platform to expose untruths and promote critical thinking. Not that I can forget the absolutely insane things that are happening in my country and in the world, but it lets me have a shimmer of hope to read about the work that you're doing. Thanks for helping us remember that there are still some good, sane, rational, people who are fighting the good fight.
This was so timely because I was having just such a conversation with someone who's into the freemen of the land theory. We also covered anti-semitism and I helped him reframe it to anti-elitism which I think is the real issue for this person. Super helpful tips, David. I will keep them in mind.
Definitely going to reading his book, yay for that.
And totally agree with trying to find common ground, no matter how simple. I once made a (seemingly) innocent post after returning from the Women's March back in '17 about how excited I was to have tater tots in my fanny pack for the ride home. My alt-right step-mother started frothing at the mouth in the comments (to me, to my friends, to anyone that would engage). My friend (and fellow teacher) used the same de-escalation techniques she uses on her 7th graders to get my step-mom from a place of threatening violence, to talking about cool it was that they both liked to dip their tots in mustard. Common ground.
I also find it hard not to get frustrated/angry with people claiming these ideas are logical so good to know kindness is the best way to try and make progress.
I have been needing this. I too get quickly oppositional with those I can see are not able to see the logic behind information that has debunked bad theories. This, despite the fact I've entertained a few myself. I can be intellectually honest about whether I've used good sources to find out about a popular conspiracy theory, and find it confronting when others are not. Or when they trust superdumbwebsite.com etc.
Your post this week helps keep the end goal in perspective, so thank you for your efforts, they are appreciated and necessary.
Like trying to talk a jumper off a bridge, telling them they're an idiot for being up on the rails isn't going to get a good result. So that's how I'm going to think of these people. A brain on the edge, approach with caution and kindness. Talk them down.
This is chock full of wonderful information that I know I will never put into practice because I respectfully disagree with Mr. West on the notion that conspiracy theorists are basically good people. I've said before that QAnon theorists as a whole are usually homophobic, transphobic, racist, misogynists with a heap of Anti-Semitism thrown in for spice. I'd like to think that the basic definition of a good person would not include any of the above characteristics and therefore I tend to think of them as a lost cause until they prove me wrong. Mr. West must have the patience of a Saint to engage with these people and I'm happy that someone with a level head is out there fighting the good fight.
I fear I too am far too quick to fall into the "how the heck can you believe this crud?" category, and I intend to use this information practically. I also read the whole thing with "Jerry was a race car driver" by Primus running around my head.
Thanks for this, David - insightful and interesting as ever.
Thank you so much for covering this. It was such an interesting read .
This is great! I definitely struggle with having a crappy attitude towards conspiracy theorists/ dumb ideas and my first instinct is to call people out on their crap. Thank you, Mick and David, for reminding me that most people are good. It's easy to lose sight of that during these crazy times. Going to add Mick's book to my reading list.
Brilliant!I think everyone should read it. I will think twice before shouting "THIS IS SO STUPID WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THIS YOU DUMB MORON? "even if it's so satisfying!
Having a deeply low moment right now. Don't know why i feel more lonely now than i have ever been and I found myself turning to this last post for comfort and distraction . .. Its funny how i feel like a part of me is sinking low now ... When i am living with my family ... I mean earlier i lived completely alone and never felt lonely .... dont know why i am writing away my feelings when all i wanted to say was re reading your words is bringing me some comfort ...
Oh man thanks so much for writing this, it's something I worry about a lot because sometimes it just seems like there's no way to communicate or find any common ground with people who believe this sort of stuff. I used to love telling people that they're stupid for believing in these things but over the past few years I've just come to think that it just reinforces the exact same beliefs and pushes them further into the conspiracy. And I'm glad to hear that you could use some of this with Art Green because I thought your engagement from the first article seemed really positive!
But also fuck Pete Evans forever because holy shit he's terrible
This is really good advice - I would've appreciated more tips on secrets in THPS as well but I wasn't the one doing the interview. On a serious note, I'm interested to whether there's anything constructive a person can do when they don't have a personal relationship with the conspiracy theorist.
New York Times Opinion video just came out "What can you do about QAnon?" https://youtu.be/4lg6cZmfpeM and they also cited Mick West.
Hello Mr. Farrier:
I’m in the throes of dealing with a professional colleague who has gone full-blown COVID conspiracy theory. My buddy, Eric Kutner suggested I read your “How to talk … hellscape” article, and as the fates would have it, my colleague is the one and only …
wait for it …
can you guess?
Chef. Pete. Evans.
I produced and directed his TV show, The Paleo Way. (TRAILER: https://vimeo.com/152324387)
I produced and directed his documentary, The Magic Pill. (TRAILER: https://youtu.be/lMEBUrfP5UI)
Here’s what’s important: I stand by those projects wholeheartedly! But I do not subscribe to Pete’s COVID conspiracies. The two are not equivalent.
And now there are newspaper articles claiming that Netflix dropped The Magic Pill because of Pete’s COVID nonsense. While that isn’t true (our contract with Netflix was up. Period), I can certainly see why that COULD easily be a reason to pull it off the roster.
https://www.soundhealthandlastingwealth.com/covid-19/pete-evans-harmful-documentary-the-magic-pill-is-removed-from-streaming-giant-netflix/
There are lots of details to this story, which I would love to discuss with you privately if you're interested.
Sincerely,
Robert Tate
Thanks for this, David. Being in the US, especially, sometimes it feels absolutely hopeless. How can you fight something so absolutely huge and pervasive? Something so deeply ingrained in the way that your country operates from the top down? It's so hard to not just be angry and incredulous 24/7. But I have to remember that there are good people -- like you, like Mick -- who truly care about debunking things, and using your platform to expose untruths and promote critical thinking. Not that I can forget the absolutely insane things that are happening in my country and in the world, but it lets me have a shimmer of hope to read about the work that you're doing. Thanks for helping us remember that there are still some good, sane, rational, people who are fighting the good fight.
This was so timely because I was having just such a conversation with someone who's into the freemen of the land theory. We also covered anti-semitism and I helped him reframe it to anti-elitism which I think is the real issue for this person. Super helpful tips, David. I will keep them in mind.
Definitely going to reading his book, yay for that.
And totally agree with trying to find common ground, no matter how simple. I once made a (seemingly) innocent post after returning from the Women's March back in '17 about how excited I was to have tater tots in my fanny pack for the ride home. My alt-right step-mother started frothing at the mouth in the comments (to me, to my friends, to anyone that would engage). My friend (and fellow teacher) used the same de-escalation techniques she uses on her 7th graders to get my step-mom from a place of threatening violence, to talking about cool it was that they both liked to dip their tots in mustard. Common ground.
This was brilliant, thank you.
I also find it hard not to get frustrated/angry with people claiming these ideas are logical so good to know kindness is the best way to try and make progress.